Westerns usually don't have this much rain. Or mud. Or moral confusion. Thank you, Clint. And this film just may get darker. Before we finish the descent let's take a breath and think a little bit about what's happened so far...
1. For starters, as usual, what's your fundamental reaction to the film? What do you like? What
doesn't sit with you so well? Most striking moment so far?
2. OK, you've got three Eastwood films under your belt (hoster?). His vision should be coming into focus at this point (we hope with greater precision that The Scofield Kid's eyesight). So, even though we've shifted from war films and a murder mystery to a Western, we hope you see some familiar themes here. Maybe most obvious of all is violence. A whole lotta hurtin' is going on in Big Whiskey. To pull this into focus we want you to think about Little Bill, the town's sheriff. What is the nature of law in Big Whiskey? Specifically, think about how he handles the ranch hand and his partner who cut up Delilah, English Bob and Will Munny.What was your reaction to each scene? Now stand back and think about what we learn about the nature of justice in Big Whislkey.
3. Now step back a little farther (slowly and don't reach inside your jacket) and think about how this depiction of violence fits the three films we've already seen. What conclusion can you make about Eastwood's understanding of violence and justice? Give this some serious thought, please.
1. So far, I have really liked this movie. It has all the essential qualities of a Clint Eastwood film, but also explores some deeper qualities of traditional Westerns. I have especially enjoyed the moral conflict with Will Munny. Like almost every Clint Eastwood movie, there is a lot of violence, but this movie questions the violence maybe more than any of his movies besides Mystic River. The emotional struggles he goes through with not knowing if what he is doing is right or not is very compelling to me. Additionally, since the movie moves a lot slower then most of his movies, it adds an aspect of suspense. It makes me nervously wait for a confrontation between the two guys and Will, The Schofield Kid, and Ned along with another encounter with a Little Bill. I also love Morgan Freeman's acting, so that is another thing that adds to my positive reaction to the movie. The only thing that I don't like that much is the pace of movie. Even though it creates tension and suspense, I still feel like more events should have happened already and that it drags it out a little too much. The moment that sticks with me the most is when Little Bill dares English Bob and his biographer to shoot him. That whole scene was very revealing to me because it showed even more that Little Bill is more interested in violent justice than the due process of law. He was going shoot and kill whichever one of them did try and shoot him. To me, he is more of cold blooded killer than a man of the law.
ReplyDelete2. Law in Big Whiskey is very different to law today. There are not really set punishments for criminals and also the sheriff, Little Bill, is basically the judge, jury, and executioner. He gets to decide what the punishment is and how severe it is for people who break the law. When Little Bill arrives in the scene when Delilah was attacked and cut up, he is very lenient towards the two men. Instead of putting them in jail or even whipping them, he decides just to treat the women as animals and make the men give the owner of the establishment their horses. To me, they should have been punished much harsher for cutting up a person for basically no reason at all. When English Bob comes into town, Little Bill treats him much worse. He takes his guns (which is a country ordinance, so really isn't that bad), beats the daylights out of him, keeps him in jail for a few days, and then sends him out of town. Yes, he is an assassin, but there was no need to beat him that badly when he really hadn't done anything that wrong. Also, when Will Munny showed up in the saloon, Bill beat him up pretty bad too just because he suspected that he was there with his friends to talk to the girls upstairs about collecting the bounty. Even though that is actually why Will was there, it doesn't give him the right, as a sheriff, to kick him over and over again. He just wanted to teach him a lesson even though the only law he actually broke was keeping his gun on him when he went into town. In my opinion, Little Bill is more of a big bully with a badge and not a "good guy." In most westerns, the sherif is a good guy who does things for the right reasons. Little Bill does whatever he wants to in an effort to keep order. He intimidates people, and in that way, keeps "bad guys" out of his town.
It wouldn't let me post mine all together again, so my third answer is below
3. The depiction of violence in this movie definitely fits the way Clint Eastwood depicts it in the other movies we have watched because it of its consequences and how it affects people. Will Money is has really serious regrets about what he did and the people he killed, which is a common theme in Clint's other movies. Also, with English Bob, all of his violence catches up with him when Little Bill beats him up. This movie seems to have the similar commentary to his other movies about how years of violence and killing catches up with you, either emotionally, physically or both. I think Clint Eastwood sees violence and justice as going hand in hand. I think he understands violence as sometimes a necessity or the only choice, but other times he seems to say that it almost always catches up with you at some point. In all of his movies that we have watched, people who have committed acts of violence have suffered consequences. I think that ties it in with justice. I believe that Clint sees justice as not just the justice system and law enforcement. In Gran Torino and Mystic River, there is a level of distrust of the police, but also a level of trust. Both movies start out not trusting the police, but by the end, law enforcement gets it right. In this movie, the law enforcement seems to be just as bad as the criminals. There is less distinguishing the "good guys" from the "bad guys." I think that is how Clint sees justice. It can come in a lot of different ways, and it's not always as simple as "black or white" and "good and bad."
ReplyDelete1. I do not like this film. So far I have not seen one moral character or truly understood anybody’s motivation for anything. Why would Clint’s character ever think it was logical to leave his children at home for some cash. I can almost guarantee that those children needed a father their so that they did not have to give all of their meals more than they needed the cash. I truly am not rooting for any character in this movie besides the poor unnecessarily abandoned children. My most striking moment this far was when Clint Eastwood gets sick out of nowhere. Was it punishment for leaving kids at home? Unlikely. I would say it may be a physical reaction to the nerves he has about returning to his old life. Or his wife trying to stop his terrible decision making from beyond the grave?
ReplyDelete2. First off I would say the most confusing thing about the law in Big Whiskey are the people who enforce it. Not just Big Bill but the people around him. These are clearly men who look like they have never fired a gun at a person in their lives being lead by a man who seems like he’s killed thousands. To comment on the scene with the cowboys I would say this showed how uncalibrated Little Bill’s moral compass is. I can never predict what he is going to do. First he is going to whip the guys then he decides make them give up their ponies. He does not benefit in anyway from the lighter punishment.
3. I think Eastwood depicts violence as a necessary evil in all of his movies. He glorifies it, but is also very real in many things that he shows; especially in his portrayal of people who suffer from PTSD. I think this movie also shows Eastwoods own political views. The most common Republican phrase is “they want to take our guns away.” This movie is about a town who does just that. And look how that turned out. What else can the citizens do but arms themselves and retake their town?
So far the movie has kinda been slow, nothing has really happened besides a couple of people almost getting stomped to death. The movie went off in a complete different direction then I thought it would have gone. Normally a western would have a bad guy that a cowboy would have to kill and then they would show a long epic journey of the hero tracking the villain down eventually killing him. In Unforgiven, I feel like no one went on any journey and they have spent more time on a character (English Bob) than any other character in the movie. I am exited to see how the movie resinates because right now i don’t see any correlation between English Bob and Clint and his gang.
ReplyDeleteJustice in Big Whiskey doesn’t seem to fair, Lil bill isn’t nice making me not like him which is very weird in westerns because you are suppose to like the good guys. A re occuring theme I see in all of Eastwood's films is the stress/depression that the characters have due to their past. In all three four movies each character has had some trauma in their lives. Little Bill strikes me as one of those characters who had a ruff past and is depressed because of it. we don’t know anything yet about little bills past but I’m sure we will find out soon enough.
Justice in all of Eastwood’s movies have been skewed from what justice would be according to the law. The movies have all narrowed to a theme of justice towards the people especially in mystic river. Violence has been a constant theme in his movies and the justice towards the violence. His movies deal with people justifying the actions they made, not just in war but in real life situations and the characters justifying their actions accordingly.
Once again, I love yet another Clint Eastwood film. We’ve seen Eastwood star in a couple movies, but no matter the genre, he seems to play the same character. Eastwood is the stoic, reserved, tough manly man. I think that role suits him. The most shocking part of this film must be the opening scene. Although there isn’t much blood and guts, like some of the other movies we have seen, the first scene is very graphic. Seeing that poor woman being cut made me cringe.
ReplyDeleteThe justice in Big Whiskey runs parallel with the justice in Buckingham Flats. The only difference is the Savage brothers don’t have a badge. In both neighborhoods, the authorities use fear to control the citizens. Lil Bill assaults everyone who disobeys his no gun law in order to instill fear and discourage that kind of behavior. In Buckingham Flats, Jimmy and the Savage brothers use violence to get justice, and advise everyone to not cooperate with the police. For example, Katie’s friends were reluctant to tell the cops brothers what happened on that saturday evening, but they had no problem telling the Savage brothers.
I think Eastwood is proposing that justice is contingent on violence. If blood is not shed, than justice is not served. In every one of his films we’ve seen, the main characters adopt an “eye for an eye” mentality. In addition, Eastwood suggests that a hero must inflict pain on others. Chris Kyle, Walt Kowalski and WIll Munney can all be considered heros and have all killed.
So far, I'm liking the movie. It is interesting and entertaining, but I'm very confused about what is going on. This is the first time I have seen a real western and I really like it. I really dislike the Schofield Kid (the third partner who can't see); he is the most annoying character because he never tells the truth because he is so self-conscious. A scene that has stuck with me was when English Bob shot all of the birds from the train. It was just a random scene with very little significance but I found it interesting. And, I asked myself, "Is that even possible?" A more significant scene that has stuck with me is the scene where the prostitute gets slashed in the face multiple times. I found the scene striking because it was so violent, and it was interesting that Clint Eastwood kicked off the movie with that scene.
ReplyDeleteIn Big Whiskey, the nature of law is whatever the sheriff thinks the right thing to do is done. For instance, if someone, especially an outsider, breaks the law, and they are beaten extremely badly by the sheriff and his men. The sheriff is somewhat of a sexist as we see in the Delilah scene, men who are residents are not punished severely, the law is loose for men. I thought that Little Bill did not take the Delilah scene seriously enough. He only forced the men to give them them 7 horses, Little Bill didn't even whip the men. The man who slashed up Delilah's face ruined her career. She cannot make money anymore. I don't think that Little Bill dealt with this correctly. Little Bill does the right thing pulling English Bob over and taking his gun, but he takes it too far when he beats English Bob, throwing him in the dirt, and kicking him until he can hardly speak. I do not think he should've beaten English Bob so badly because he lost popularity with the towns folk. It looked especially bad since Bob wasn't fighting back. Little Bill notices this and yells at the people, "What are you lookin at? Mind your own business." I think that Little Bill should give criminals the chance to leave Big Whisky before he hurts them. Also, I thought it was funny how English Bob's own "biographist" left him to write for Little Bill. Obviously, Little Bill was good enough a man that the "Biographist" thought it to be the right thing to stay with him. I believe the reason that English Bob's biography writer stayed with Little Bill is because he told the truth, was brave, and was wise. It was awesome how Little Bill gave the "biographist" the gun and said, "Shoot me and both of you can leave and be free." The Biographist still didn't shoot him though, I think in this moment the "biographist" became fond of Little Bill. It was sickening when Little Bill beat the crap out of Will Munny. Will was sick, tired, and didn't mean any harm. Yet, Little Bill beat him almost to the point of death just because Will owned a gun. Once again, I feel that Little Bill should have said you can leave and you won't be hurt. All of these actions of Bill's do have one thing in common though, which creating the fear factor though violence, we see it today in some countries. I'm sure that Little Bill's tactics scare people in town and cause them to commit less crimes. Justice in Big Whiskey isn't what the people in Big Whiskey see justice as but what Little Will sees Justice as.
Once again, Clinton Eastwood doesn't give us a good or bad or black-and-white scenario in the movie. What I see as justice I can look at again from a different angle and say, "Maybe that's not justice." Clint Eastwood's movies show that justice and violence can go hand-in-hand. For instance, when Chris Kyle shot the kid carrying the bomb, we, as the viewers, thought, "Good, Chris Kyle saved many American soldiers," but at the same time I can look at it and think he killed a kid that is horrible. In the case of Unforgiven, justice isn't necessarily what a law states as correct. In most of Clint's movies justice is expressed through violence and is provoked by personal feelings like vengeance, as we see in American Sniper. I look forward to finishing the movie tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteSo far, I suppose I like the film. I haven't really been amazed by anything yet, though we have seen some pretty great scenes. I'm not extremely interested in the plot, but I do like the way Eastwood strays away from the norms of westerns. In my opinion, most striking moment so far was by far the opening scene. Eastwood threw us directly into the action in a way that I don't think anyone was expecting. It definitely drew me into the story, and no other scene has stuck with me or made me as eager to find out what happens next as that first scene.
ReplyDeleteIn the scene with the ranch hand and the man who cut Delilah, I was as surprised as Alice was when Little Bill said their only punishment was to bring Skinny some of their horses. Little Bill's justification for this was that they're really good guys and they don't deserve to be badly punished for that. However, I'm conflicted about what I believe their punishment should have been. I don't like violence, so I don't think whipping them with the bull whip would have been the right thing to do regardless of whether they deserved it or not. But after what they did to Delilah, getting away with just giving up some of their horses didn't seem like it taught them a lesson. Little Bill's treatment of English Bob and Will Munny was extremely unnecessary. Granted, they both brought firearms into a town that didn't allow firearms. But for Little Bill to beat them the way he did was awfully over the top. I believe Little Bill himself is the nature of justice in Big Whiskey. He represents the unforgiving law.
Eastwood understanding of violence and justice is that violence can be used to achieve justice. In American Sniper, Chris Kyle murders at least 160 men to achieve "justice" for America. In Gran Torino, Walt beats up the gang member to achieve justice for Thao, and sacrifices himself to achieve justice for Sue and Thao. Jimmy believes he's killing Dave to achieve justice for his daughter. Little Bill's approach to justice is through violence as well. It's clear that Eastwood sees them as equal, or that you can't have one without the other. He believes justice can't exist without violence, and justice can't be achieved without violence.
First off, I wanna give a shout out to Clark for his first blog post.
ReplyDelete1 I've enjoyed it thus far. It's my first western, well the first I can remember. I have enjoyed the action in the movie and will's journey thus far. The thing that doesn't sit well with me at all is that he leaves his kids in his house alone. They could starve or die, but I'm assuming that they know how to fend for each other. I don't think that such a responsibility should be put on a kid that looks to be about 8. The most striking scene is when the sheriff lets the autobiographer hand the gun to English Bob. Bob knew there was something fishy about it but he was oh so close to grabbing the pistol and shooting him. Bob's realization that it was rigged surprised me.
2 I don't like the sherif at all. The way he treats people who do have firearms is uncalled for. Yes, it sends a message but sometimes he goes too far. The law in Big Whiskey revolves heavily on the "no firearms" rule. The sherif isn't afraid to use a gun on someone else though. Enforcing the law that way is reasonable and having a squad of guys helping out is a bit much but works. For Delilah, the sherif basically says you damaged my property so I get to take some of yours as payment. It's because, I think, that she was just someone people slept with. He saw her more as property than a human being. I didn't think it was all that just and felt like there should have been more punishment. For English Bob, the way he handles the situation is pretty extreme. I feel like there was more hate toward him since the sheriff had known him before, even knowing he had a 33, or some gun, in his shirt pocket. I didn't like bob either so seeing him get beat up was enjoyable. But finally for Will, I think it was way too much. Will is an old man, it's wrong to kick the life out of him like that. The sherif does take the law very seriously but I feel like he should have just punished will in a different way. The nature of Big Whiskey's for of justice is violence, a common theme in Eastwood's films. It shows how violence can get things done and send a message, but it's a message of fear. It's very strict gun law is the sheriff's honor code that he will not let anyone break. Even if it means using guns in a no gun city. I feel like his enforcement is was too harsh and unforgiving.
3 in the three films we do see violence and justice, a huge deal of it at that. I believe that Eastwood views violence and justice to go hand in hand, or at least used to. If you want justice, violence will have to happen for any sort of change to happen. With all these movies I believe Clint shows us many situations where this is true. But I also believe that Clint knows there are other ways, if not better ways, of handling situations. I can see where Clint leaves the spot blank. For example, with Jimmy in mystic river, Jimmy could have not gotten violent and let the law handle things as peacefully as the law can. Instead, Jimmy goes out and kills his friend. Since clint's films are very violence heavy, I think that's why people view it as Clint Eastwood supports violence in justice. I believe he does to an extent
~Nick
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ReplyDeleteSo far I like the movie, but it was a little confusing at the beginning. I wasn't sure who the main character was, and in a movie it is sometimes important to distinguish a main character. I did the like how they would change from different perspectives like that so fast. One moment we would be with Munny at his farm with his kids, and the next we would be watching the women at the whore house throw mud at people. I think that one character that stands out a lot for me is the sherif or deputy. I don't know why but I would probably say it was because he does whatever he wants. I think Clint Eastwood did a good job on putting him in the film. Having that hard sherif who beats the crap out of people is pretty appealing to me. It makes the movie more interesting and fun. When he beat up Munny I was surprised that the main character would get almost killed, but it made him kind of have a recollection. He knew that he was dying, so the sherif adds a perspective.
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My reaction to the scene where the man slices up the prostitute was also kind of confusing. It wasn't that confusing, but I don't really know how someone can go from having sexual intercourse to slicing up a women's face. I understand that she said the guy had a small pecker, but that wasn't justified. I think that is a huge theme in Clint Eastwoods films. In-justified violence. It is pretty interesting how he displays it in different films. In gran Torino it was them men from the gang beating up Tao, in this its he man slicing the woman. It is just very interesting how themes from directors carry over.
3:
Like I said above, a lot of the violence in his films are in-justified, but I think that adds conflict in the film. This is pretty dark, but in Mystic River, the mute kid didn't plan on beating Katie and killing her. He didn't really have a reason. The sherif in this didn't really have a reason for almost crippling Munny. I also believe that Clint Eastwood blurs the line between Normal violence and justice so people can think about why he is don't these things.
I'm not as big of a fan of this film as I am of all the other films that we have watched, but I am still enjoying watching it. The movie keeps the audience's attention by having the viewers question what is going to happen next. Even with this element of suspense, it is much slower that the other films. Something that is interesting to me is how different "Unforgiven" is from other movies in the western genre. Unlike many westerns, the "heroes" of this movie are not glorified and depicted as perfect and invincible. They are seen as flawed both in their actions and their physically. In a traditional western Will wouldn't be struggling to mount his horse or shoot the can(?), rather he would gracefully mount his horse every time and would be the best shot around. This is part of the reason why "Unforgiven" would be considered a revisionist western. Something that is not sitting well with me is the way that the law handles situations, especially Little Bill. Some of the things that he and his men do are very questionable and upsetting. To me, the most striking moment so far has been where Little Bill, English Bill and English Bill's biographer are all together and little Bill tells the biographer to shoot him. This to me brought up the point how for most people shooting someone is in no way, shape, or form an easy thing to do.
ReplyDeleteI am not a fan of Little Bill. At all. He is quick to jump to conclusions, and many times these speedy assumptions are wildly incorrect. Because he is the head of the legal system in this town what he says is law. This is the case even when what he says might not be the best way to handle a situation. Something that I find very ironic about the law in Big Whiskey is their policy on guns compared to the way they enforce this policy. They don't want any firearms in the town yet the way they enforce this law is to surround the person they thing has a weapon with guns. And then even after said person is removed of their weapons, they get beaten to a pulp. The people of the town don't seem to agree with some of the things that Little Bill does, yet they do not speak up as they are afraid of him. In a society where the people are afraid to confront the authority figures, it grants those with any bit of power even more power. This has made Little Bill able to dish out any punishment he deems necessary. When Little Bill gives the two men their punishment I was very surprised at how forgiving he was to these men. Their punishment was only to give the man a few horses. Little Bill threatens them with whipping them but ends up not doing so. He let them get away with cutting her up with next to no punishment. Then the way he reacts to Will and English Bill are very similar. He completely beats them up even though they have no way to defend themselves. Little Bill has some sort of reason to beat up English Bill (he is an assassin), but not a big enough reason to beat him that much. Will on the other hand is just a stranger sitting in the bar that is very sick. Little Bill has absolutely no reason to beat him up, yet he does. In both of these scenes you can see the horrified reactions of the observers, yet they do nothing to change the situation. The law in big whiskey is unpredictable, and deals out unregulated punishments.
I think one thing that Clint has brought into question is when is violence ok and acceptable. I think he is saying it is evil but that brings into the play the idea of whether violence is a necessary evil and can people live without it? Are there any situations in which violence is ok? I think he is also pointing out that violence is also more acceptable to some people than others with makes it a difficult thing to regulate and categorize. An act of violence that I condemn another person might deem as necessary. I think he is also saying something similar about justice. Justice can be altered depending on the law. Many times justice is obscured because of the corruption of the legal system. Another question that I believe Clint asks in a few of his movies is what does violence to do a person, both receiving and perpetrating. Clint makes these very complicated themes.
ReplyDelete1. As you could've guessed, I like the film. I seem to like all of Clint Eastwood movies that I've seen (given I haven't seen any of the infamously bad Dirty Harry sequels), and this one is no different. It is a bit slower than the others, and the violence is different. As with many Eastwood movies, suffering is a major theme throughout the movie. The moment that's stuck with me the most so far is the scene where Clint Eastwood is being beat within an inch of his life in the bar, and his friends are climbing out the back window. I really felt bad for the seemingly innocent Eastwood, despite his admitted killing of many, many other people in his past.
ReplyDelete2. As I mentioned, a major theme in Clint Eastwood movies is suffering. Clearly, there's TONS of suffering in Unforgiven. Physical suffering, like the girl who had her face cut up, or when Clint Eastwood is being beaten to a pulp, and there's also emotional suffering. We know Clint Eastwood is beat up about the death of his wife, and I'm almost certain his kids are upset that he's leaving them alone for a couple weeks. In Big Whiskey, Little Bill is the law. He's a vigilante. What he says, goes, and no one else can do anything about it.
3. Clint Eastwood uses violence in place of certainty and emotional clarity. When a character of his is unsure, or is stressed out, or is traumatized, violence is usually the solution. Will Munny is undoubtedly stressed, so when The Kid offers him an opportunity to let out his frustration with violence, AND collect a reward, it's hard to him to say no. I also think that Clint Eastwood understands that justice is a very flimsy idea, that's different to everyone. Many, many people, and almost all of Clint Eastwood's main characters, strongly associate violence with justice. Whether it's Dirty Harry, Walt Kowalski, or Chris Kyle, violence is almost always their answer. Until the end of the film, when many of the characters find a solution besides violence. Oddly enough, I expect that to happen to Will Munny, too.
Growing up, I watched quite a few Western’s with my grandfather and I was fascinated by nearly all of them. So far, I’ve enjoyed “Unforgiven.” At times it has been a little slow and confusing, but overall, it is a well made and engaging movie. I really like the action scenes in this film and how they are stand-offs as opposed to full-fledged warfare. Will is definitely a very complex character. I was incredibly surprised by his decision to suddenly leave his young children at home for an extended period off time. I understand that times have changed, but that is a rather questionable parenting move. The scene that sticks with me the most is the opening. Not often does a movie open with a sex scene. Even less often does a film open with a sex scene where the man cuts a woman after she laughs at his “small pecker.” I found that scene particularly unsettling.
ReplyDeleteThe justice in Big Whiskey is completely unclear and inconsistent. It seems that whatever Little Bill says, goes. I really am not a fan of his character as he seems to have quite a few issues with morality. We see this in the beginning of the film when he decides that the two cowboys should not be whipped, but should instead give up their horses. I’m usually not one to advocate for violence, but I feel that their actions warranted a more severe punishment. However when Will and English Bob are caught with firearms, Bill loses his temper and kicks the hell out of the both of them. Little Bill is a stupid, violent man who does not need to be responsible for the safety of the town.
Eastwood is suggesting that violence and justice go hand in hand. Without one violent act there is no need for justice which ultimately leads to more violence. I think that Eastwood is also showing how people of different ages choose to deal with violence. For example in “Gran Torino”, we see Thao wanting to go and shoot up the entire gang out of instinct while Walt decides to draw up a plan in order to take them down. In “Unforgiven” we see a similar pattern in the scene where Little Bill takes Will’s gun and violently beats him. Instead of using his gun and being instantly killed, Will hands it over and still pays a price. However, the Scholfield Kid makes it clear that he would have tried to take out a few of the men surrounding him. With this Clint is showing is that as one grows older, he uses violence less impulsively and picks his battles wisely.
1. So far, this movie to me is very raw. Whether it's the violence in the beginning or Clint Eastwood falling in the mud after trying to tackle a pig. Everything is very western and manly. I enjoy this movie and like that fact that it is two older guys going on this adventure together. It is kind of Clint looking back on all the old westerns he did and what character he portrayed. Now he's changed, he is sensitive and regretful of his former life. He cares for his children and raises pigs. This movie has all of the Clint Eastwood pieces a movie should have. It's about manliness, adventure, heroism, age and sex. It has a lot of pieces of a cheesy western but it is still kind of a revisionist version. The young and kind of wild guy who recruits Clint for his trip is kind of the Clint of the past and he is trying to teach this boy to be more mature.
ReplyDelete2. The law is very rough in Big Whiskey. They are very prepared for danger because they make everyone give up their firearms before they enter the town. The deputies were very cautious and always brought a lot of fire arms if someone entered the town and were seen as dangerous they would come out with tons of fire arms. Little Bill, the sheriff is very rough and beats people up for no apparent reason. He seems like a good person at first but now we see him as a rough mean man. The scene where he is beating up Clint is very hard to watch because he wasn't going to hurt anybody but little Bill thought he was danger. The people of Big Whiskey might see Little Bill as a protector but I believe he oversteps his bounds and uses too much of his power.
3. Violence is a huge deal for most of Clint Eastwood's movies. The idea of regret and maturity ties into his work with violence a lot. Whether it is Chris Kyle, Walt Kowalski, the boys from flags of our fathers, Jimmy or Munny all of them have regret about what they have done in some way. They also have to deal with what they have done and think about it. Eastwood really points out how violence stays with you for your whole life. Eastwood mixes violence with a lot of other things in his movies he puts in a lot of intensity in the scenes. The scenes containing violence are also very raw, there is no background music you only hear grunts and punches or gunshots. I really like this raw view of violence because it is more intense to watch. With justice he shows many different views he explores whether what these people are doing is right. He shows this with Chris Kyle and Little Bill, both are over the top violent and really believe they are protecting people. He also explores whether these men are really good people.
1- I like this movie, this movie is very popular in my family and I'm happy that I'm finally getting a chance to see it. So far I really like the story and the way Eastwood is telling it with brutal realism and getting rid of the fantasy of the previously conceived western movie. I haven't come across something in the movie that I don't like yet.
ReplyDelete2- along with violence, heroism, moral dilemmas, and what is evil. That last one especially applies when looking at Bills character. Bill runs Big Whiskey like a mob boss. He keeps everything and everyone under his control and anyone who defies his power is publicly punished. Bills version of justice is very different than what people would consider justice around the world today. Anyone who breaks the law is a no good scumbag who should be savagely beaten into submission of the law. Of course his forms of punishment are extreme yet crime rates in Big Whiskey are probably much lower because of it. Yet Bill is not without his biases, this is evident when the two Cowboys cut up the whore in the beginning. He makes them pay for compensation because their crime was they cut up a hooker not killed a man. He knew that British Bob had killed many people so he beat him yet when the men commit an act of violence towards a woman he only demands compensation which makes the audience more mad at him. Wether Bill is a bad man or not is a moral debate that has back and forth between wether Bill a power hungry man who uses fear to keep Big Whiskey in line or a law enforcing Sheriff who does what he has to to keep Big Whiskey in line.
3- Eastwood depicts violence in a non-comical realistic way. Eastwood describes violence in a way where people see the truth about violence in war, or the Midwest, or a man who has lost his daughter. Eastwood shows a pure raw violence that can show the true nature of death and what people will do to avoid it or inflict it upon others. In Eastwood's war films he shows the extent people will go to in order to survive and just do their job. Mystic river shows vengeful and hateful violence in a way that war movies can not. The violence is raw and primal and and shows that people will go to large extents for the ones they love. and unforgiven also shows a vengeful and hateful form of violence. The violence is barbaric and shows what people will do for money and revenge. Although in all of these forms of violence Eastwood makes the watcher question wether the violence is necessary.
This has been an interesting film-viewing experience for me. Seeing the end of the movie before the beginning, I noticed that I gained a far different opinion of William Munny at first. While watching the end, I had mostly positive opinions of Munny. However, now having seen the beginning, I like him a lot less. He leaves his family, disregards what his deceased wife wanted for him, and reverts back to his killing ways. And for what? Some money? Overall, though, I like the movie, despite its slower nature. Though overlooked, I thought the moment where Will couldn’t even mount the horse was telling about how long removed he is from these types of activities.
ReplyDeleteClearly law in Big Whiskey doesn’t have the most defined justice system. Little Bill is essentially judge and jury; he runs it all. One theme seems to stay consistent when dealing with justice – he almost always seems to resort to violence. He senselessly beats the ____ out of Will for seemingly no reason, kicks the ______ out of English Bob and steals his writer. But the time he doesn’t use violence – when dealing with the people who cut Delilah – seems to be the time he actually should have used violence. I find Kyra’s defense of little Bill in class to be interesting. To me, it seems that he could just be doing his best to maintain order in Big Whiskey. Maybe he’s just doing what he sees best.
Justice is a clear overarching theme in all of Eastwood’s films. Yet what I have been most impressed with in his films is how he ties in morality with that justice. He’s clearly a violent filmmaker, yet he is versatile enough to add subtle moral dilemmas into the plotline. I also think he is saying that there is not uniform method to accomplish justice. While in the 1800s in Big Whiskey it may have been best to trust the tyrannical system of justice that Little Bill establishes, it makes more sense in today’s world to trust the system (like in Gran Torino).
I really liked this film. I thought it was a fantastic and welcome departure from the typical format and style of American Western films. It has a far grittier and more realistic feel than your standard John Wayne style movie— not that those films are a bad thing to enjoy, but Unforgiven holds a certain raw realism that reminds you that you’re watching a multi-layered story about human beings, not just an action flick of black-and-white, good-and-evil standoffs. The moment that stuck with me the most so far was the scene where Little Bill brutally beats Clint. It was unexpected, but made complete sense for the character, and it was a horrifying scene that really stood out to me.
ReplyDeleteThe law in Big Whiskey is very different from law today. Little Bill himself is basically the government and police force of the town, and therefore, he can do just about whatever he wants to criminals. The way he beats on anyone he thinks may be breaking the law clearly makes others uncomfortable, but he has no problem with that, because he’s the most powerful man around. Little Bill is not exactly opposed to corporal punishment, either— in fact, the only time we see him enforce the law in a non-violent manner is when the barkeep convinces him to have the cowboys deliver horses instead of giving them a brutal whipping. Interestingly, this seemed like the only time when it may have been reasonable to use violence, an eye for an eye and all that, but it’s also the only time that he refrains. The way Bill turns and doesn’t turn to violence says a lot about his corrupt justice system.
As with Little Bill’s law enforcement, violence has played a huge role in handing out justice throughout Clint’s movies. Clint seems to be implying that violence has a part in the distribution of justice, seen in bits such as when the gangster gets stomped on in Gran Torino. The point Clint is making in the overall narratives of his films is that while violence for the sake of violence is certainly wrong (see Little Bill or the Butcher in American Sniper), violence can sometimes be necessary or justified when it is dealt by the right people in the right amount to the right person for the right reasons— Even when someone thinks they’re totally justified, it could still be wrong (e.g. Jimmy in Mystic River).
Sorry about the lateness, I didn’t realize this hadn’t posted.
1. So far I have enjoyed Unforgiven! I have not seen a western in a long time and like the story that is being told, like all of Clint Eastwoods films there has been a lot of violence and drinking and many things building that will soon be revealed. The part that has stuck with me the most is when Morgan freeman could not shoot the young Cowboy so Clint took the gun and shoot the boy, not killing him cleanly and you can hear the boy screaming and wanting water. I like the way the movie started with Clint working with his kids and how he is so loyal to his wife, which is a big conflict that I think is is going to have to break in order to finish the job.
ReplyDelete2. In big whiskey little Bill has one rule in his town that he in forces more than anything, which is supposed to keep his town safe and out of violence, which is no guns. The first time we see him in force the law with English bob, English Bob gets the shit beaten out of him. This movie started with a very violent scene of Delilah getting cute up, by a cowboy. Killing and things happen with almost no trouble comes along for anyone who did wrong. After all is said and done we learn that the style of little Bobs way of in forcing the law does not work at all in big whiskey and that if would have just punished the cowboys for cutting up Delilah nothing would have ever happened.
3. In all three films we have seen everyone goes after the person that has done wrong in their eyes, everyone gets what they deserve. People want justice for what has happened to their loved ones, brother, or for the better life of someone else. Chris Kyle goes after mustafa, jimmy skills Dave, and Walt dies so that Tod can live on without fear. Everyone has gotten the justices they wanted with their own hands and goes after who they need to get.